Home » English » General Discussions » The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but
| The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46193] |
Tue, 18 September 2007 00:46  |
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When 18 years ago I immigrated to the US, as a best-selling author, escaping from both the oppression and threats of Turkish government and the violent reaction of "betrayed" Muslim radicals, I did not know much about the schizophrenic nature or the other face of the US Janus.
We started the idea of Islamic Reform, long before the Western media and political circles started giving it lip service after the 9/11 attack. However, our idea of reform does not justify the colonialist ambitions and barbarism of the forces that dominate the USA.
The reaction of the American media and gatekeepers to our landmark work, "Quran: a Reformist Translation," supported our suspicion that the USA-Inc is not sincere in its claim of seeking peace, democracy, freedom in the Muslim world. Its policy so far has done just the opposite: supporting corrupt and oppressive kings/generals, and strengthening the extremists!
We have come to conclusion that the war and oil industries, and the coalition of Anglos, Christianists, and Zionists, want the presence of "Muslim Terrorists" out there to justify their own terror, hegemony, invasions, massacres, plunders, and their exploitation of world's resources. Both Sunni/Shiite Jihadists and their counterpart Christianists need each other for their destructive and reckless causes, which ultimately serve the greed of big corporations.
Unfortunately, the US media and the American government have been hijacked by big corporations. American corporations are bypassing the constitutional hurdle through their monopoly on the mass media, thereby getting away with censorship. We no more have even the resemblance of a government of people, by people, for people. We, the Americans, need another revolution.
American Constitution has become a token of window dressing. In Noam Chomsky's words, the media has been "manufacturing consent" to policies that serves the short term of interests of the elite, while putting the peace and security of the world at risk
The USA government is getting away with its atrocities against citizens of foreign countries; and its domestic force, the mass media, is also getting away with their censorship, misinformation and disinformation.
Following a Fatwa-Review of "a Very Established Scholar," Palgrave/Macmillan Aborted the Publication of the Reformist Translation of the Quran
(The Complete Review and Our Response)
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"…. From the perspective of the academic study of the Qur'an, this book has very little to contribute……. ." – A anonymous Sunni Scholar who was described by the editor of Palgrave-Macmillan as "a very well-established professor."
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In 2004, my colleagues and I signed a contract with Palgrave/Macmillan publishing house for the Quran: a Reformist Translation. The editor and other staff of the publishing house were very encouraging and enthusiastic, and last summer, I was personally introduced to the director of the publishing company at its New York headquarters. Palgrave even published an announcement about the upcoming Reformist Translation in their 2006 Fall/Winter Catalogue, which was later postponed for the summer of 2007. However, in December 2006, the editor informed me that the board determined that my manuscript was not acceptable for publication.
Apparently, they were convinced or intimidated by a review (more accurately, a fatwa) of "a very well-established professor," who misleadingly likened our annotated translation of the Quran to Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses. This was akin to a medieval publishing house turning down Martin Luther's 95 Theses after consulting "a very well-established" Catholic Bishop! It is telling that Palgrave's "very well-established scholar" in his several-page review, had only one substantive criticism, which consisted of our usage of a word, yes a single word in the translation: progressive.
Near Eastern Studies and Islamic Studies departments are heavily dependent on the grants of Sunni or Shiite establishments and the financial support of repressive regimes. Furthermore, Middle Eastern or Near Eastern Studies programs employ a good number of embedded CIA agents disguised as scholars, whose real job is to promote the agenda of imperial politics. So, for both theological and political reasons, the likelihood of a book by outspoken progressive muslims receiving negative reviews from those "well established scholars" was high. Perhaps, the publishing house looked for a "scholarly" excuse to censor the work of a politically incorrect team. Early signs of such a desire were evident when the publishing house recommended I delete the last section of the Manifesto for Islamic Reform, where I address Muslims, Christendom, Jews, and all Humanity.
The "very well-established" scholar's letter (partially quoted above), was filled with prejudice, false accusations and misrepresentations. There was however, one substantial criticism, which consisted of our usage of a word, yes a single word in the translation: progressive. Palgrave's "very well-established scholar" apparently had allergy towards that word; his rejection of that word did not rest on a linguistic argument, but on his lack of differentiation between "progressive" and "Progressive," the first being an adjective and the latter, a relatively modern political label. Based on his reactionary and regressive mindset, our scholar pontificated that the author of the Quran could not have any idea about a progressive concept! (See verse 15:24; 74:37; and 66:5)
I believe that without hearing my defense against this Sunni version of excommunication in the guise of a "scholarly review," the publishing house committed an injustice against my person and our work. I called the publishing house and asked them to give me the chance to respond to the reviewer and defend myself and work against his disparagement and distortions; I was told he remain anonymous.
These so-called scholars who glorify tradition do not have the guts to engage in critical thinking. They are aware of a lot of literature and are very good in quoting this or that in their works, yet they lack originality and the courage to criticize the establishment. They are aloof towards the plight of the masses. They do not take the risk of actively participating in leading the masses in a better direction. All they care about is their pension, their reputation among those who would rank them in the academic game and politics. Most of their production is regurgitation of useless academic material that contributes nothing toward the betterment of individuals and the society. They consider themselves objective, yet they cannot tolerate honest people with conviction.
We were not surprised to hear negative remarks, insults, or false associations from a reviewer who considers a rejection of backward and bankrupt sectarian dogmas "heresy." However, we were surprised to learn that the board of the publishing house cancelled the publication of a potentially controversial yet crucial book that would introduce the message of the Quran--the message of peace, justice, reason, and progress--without the distortion of sectarian teachings. Any scholar who can see beyond his or her office can see the growing reform movement, open or clandestine, particularly in Turkey, Malaysia, Iran, Egypt and Kazakhstan where people take great risks to question the popular sectarian dogmas.
Men and women of reason who have been promoting Islamic reform since the 1970's by rejecting manmade religious dogmas have been the target of Sunni and Shiite extremists, terrorist groups and oppressive governments. Many of those who converted to rational monotheism are oppressed, some are forced to emigrate, others are forced to hide their whereabouts, and a few have been assassinated. For instance, my friend, Dr. Rashad Khalifa, was assassinated in Tucson, Arizona, by an al-Qaida affiliate terrorist group al-Fuqra or al-Fuqara; my Turkish comrade, Ms. Gonca Kuriþ, was kidnapped, tortured and assassinated by Turkish Hizbullah, allegedly a tool of a faction in the Turkish secret police agency. And with the publication of this book, we are concerned about Layth who lives in Saudi Arabia, an oppressive and regressive monarchy supported by the US-Inc, which has been incubating a frustrated and bigoted population.
It is our conviction that some powerful interest groups do not wish the voice of a progressive islamic reform movement to be heard, a movement that does not justify state terrorism and atrocities as a response to group violence and terrorism; a movement that rejects serving the recently increased appetite of the imperialistic hegemony and military adventures of U.S. Inc., which has been advocated and conducted in the Middle East and beyond by the coalition of Neocon, right-wing Evangelical Christians, the Oil/Weapon industry, AIPAC, and the axis of Anglo-fascists, under the guise of national interest, freedom or security. Modern world history is filled with numerous examples showing that the terrorism, atrocities, genocides, covert operations, destruction and misery caused by militaries and police forces of governments are by far much worse than the ones committed by terrorist gangs and organizations.
We cannot allow the national propaganda machines lead us to seek refuge in a super evil that promises to save us from a smaller one, especially if the latter is the by product of the first. We should not let our governments be hijacked by war profiteers who do not hesitate to satisfy their greed for more power and money at the cost of the blood of the young and innocent, white and black, here and abroad. We should not let their embedded agents in academia and press dupe us through double speak, misinformation, and disinformation. We should not let some dubious forces manufacture consent in our names. We should not let ourselves be manipulated by fear-mongers, who will only increase or exaggerate the source of our fears. We should take back our governments by getting informed and involved. We should not let the fanatic Islamist Jihadists and Christianist Crusaders lead the world to their bloody Armageddon.
You may visit the following websites for the full letter of the Sunni scholar whose advice was taken at face value by Palgrave/Macmillan, and our response to the letter. You may also find in the following websites, recent updates, reactions, and feedback from reviewers, our responses, related news in the media, and the activities of the global reformist movement:
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
www.progressivemuslims.org
www.free-minds.org
www.quranic.org
Let the world hear the message. Let the West hear the voice of monotheism, the voice of reason, peace, justice and progress. Let the East and the Middle East hear the clear message of the book that they have abandoned for centuries, despite efforts by their leaders to repress it.
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9:32 They want to extinguish God's light with their mouths, but God refuses such and lets His light continue, even if the ingrates hate it.
9:33 He is the One who sent His messenger with guidance and the system of truth, to make it manifest above all other systems, even if those who set up partners hate it.
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Now, I will intersperse my response with the full letter of the Sunni scholar who led Palgrave/Macmillan to drop the publication of this book:
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"Thanks very much for sending me the manuscript of Quran: a Reformist Translation. As you requested, I will attempt to address the quality of the debate, the market/audience and potential for course material, and the timeliness for this publication.
"From the perspective of the academic study of the Qur’an, this book has very little to contribute. The translators represent an eccentric modern movement that claims its inspiration from Rashad Khalifa, a scientist who in 1974 came up with a computer-based numerological analysis of the Qur’an that served as a basis for his wholesale rejection of the last 14 centuries of Islamic tradition, and his founding of a new sect called United Submitters International. The translators repeatedly refer to this event as a miraculous discovery, something which will have very little appeal either to mainstream Muslims or to non-Muslims looking for a solid approach to this sacred text. The problem with this numerology is its complete disconnection from meaning and history, and its claim that permutations of the number 19 demonstrate the miraculousness of the Qur’an. This apologetic approach (which is well known in 20th-century thought, though by no means unchallenged) is based on intellectual sleight-of-hand, using the language of science to confer religious authority on a sacred text."
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This so-called prominent scholar does not bother to provide evidence for his accusation. His arrogant and hostile reaction to the numerical structure of the Quran is a typical reaction of an innumerate Sunni or Shiite mullah. Ironically, many Sunni scholars around the world applauded and celebrated Dr. Rashad Khalifa and his work for about a decade, until they learned that he was not one of them. Rejecting our claims, which are published in numerous books, in a "scholarly" review and depicting it as "intellectual sleight-of-hand" without providing a shred of evidence is itself intellectual sleight-of-hand.
As for our inspiration being Rashad Khalifa, that is a misstatement. Though it was Rashad who pulled our attention the message of the Quran and monotheism, the source of our inspiration was and always has been reason and the message of Quran through the light of reason. When he was alive among us, we called him with his first name and discussed issues with him freely. We never considered him as an "authority" regarding islam. To the contrary, we found ourselves mostly agreeing with him, since he was using reason in his critical evaluation of sects and religions. We reject being labeled as members of a sect, since we have problem with organized religions and we submit ourselves to God alone. This very translation differs in numerous verses from the translation of Rashad Khalifa.
As for the "wholesale rejection of the last 14 centuries of Islamic tradition"… This is a misstatement of our position, since the so-called modern Islamic tradition did not originate 14 centuries ago, but it originated after the compilation of fabricated hadith three centuries after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Besides, we never rejected the use of sectarian tradition and liturgy as historical documents, sure being subject of critical evaluation. We also never rejected their role in learning the political, social, cultural and linguistic norms and events of the past. So, the accurate assessment of our position would be the following: "Wholesale rejection of 11 centuries of sectarian tradition which is based on hearsay and medieval Arab culture as a secondary authority besides God's word." Those who are familiar with our work will attest to the fact that our Sunni scholar is twisting our well-known position with his sleight-of-words.
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"To proclaim that the Qur’an contains 20th-century scientific discoveries renders meaningless the religious faith of Muslims of the past who could not possibly have been aware of such a concept. It also makes the faith of future Muslims irrelevant, since these 20th-century scientific discoveries will be utterly transformed in another hundred years. Moreover, it demonstrates a staggering audacity in suggesting that only now for the first time in 1400 years has someone actually grasped the significance of the Qur’an. In a way, this is the mirror image of those hypercritical exposés (e.g., Christian Luxenberg) claiming to discover for the first time in history that the Qur’an is actually written in Syriac or is somehow a forgery. This adds nothing to the understanding of the origins and meaning of the Qur’an in its original context, or to the way in which it has been interpreted over the centuries."
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Indeed, this is a powerful argument. Not because it contains truth; but because it cunningly appeals to a diverse group of people and feeds their prejudices. It appeals to Orientalists and Atheists who consider the Quran the work of an uneducated desert Arab lived in medieval ages. According to this group, the Quran cannot contain any information that could not have been known by Muhammad's contemporaries. So, this group will be ready to reject our arguments without even listening to them, as this so-called prominent scholar has done.
This argument, ironically, appeals to traditional Sunnis too, since they consider the Quran incapable of containing any information beyond Muhammad's knowledge. Idolizing Muhammad and limiting the knowledge and information contained in the Quran with Muhammad's understanding, contradicts many verses of the Quran, which we listed in the footnotes of the translation. Without dealing with any of those verses, this so-called prominent scholar ignores the numerous scientific statements mentioned in the Quran, and reduces the divine knowledge to the limited knowledge and understanding capacity of medieval men. They ignore the fact that, if the Quran is God's book as it asserts, if the Quran contains information beyond the time of its revelation as it asserts, then Muhammad, a human messenger, could not have properly understood many scientific statements contained in the Quran. Furthermore, our prominent scholar ignores the fact that we do not have an accurate and exhaustive account of Muhammad's understanding of the Quran. All we have about Muhammad are volumes of contradictory hearsay narrations collected more than two centuries after his departure. The best of those books contains stories of holy goat eating and abrogating verses of the Quran, monkeys stoning adulterous monkeys to death, Muhammad being bewitched by a magician, or Muhammad marrying a child almost 50 years younger than himself!
The scholar revered by the board of Palgrave/Macmillan wants us to subordinate the knowledge of the Quran to these kinds of tradition. He wishes us to pollute our mind with the understanding of those who glorify those kinds of silly stories.
Let's read again, his last statement in the excerpt above: "This adds nothing … to the way in which it has been interpreted over the centuries." What? "Over the centuries?" Why not "by Muhammad and his companions?" If our only way of understanding the Quran is trying to understand the interpretation done centuries ago, then what about the second-century muslims? If the second century muslims had no right to understand the Quran on their own, then there could be only one generation that had the right to understand the Quran: The first generation. The rest, according to Palgrave/Macmillan's scholar, had to regurgitate their interpretations. However, if those who lived in the second century, or the third century, or the 13th century had the right to interpret the Quran according to their own times, then why should we, the 21st century generation, not have the same right? The "prominent" scholar, as it seems, is too prominent to notice this simple logical fallacy in his argument.
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"The only way in which this might be seen as useful is in the extent to which it documents new intellectual movements that have emerged in Muslim circles during the 20th and 21st centuries. In this sense, this book could be considered a contribution, although frankly it would need to be treated in comparison and analytically from an outside perspective in order to be considered academic. Simply to publish this work as it is basically gives this religious group a platform to express their distinctive theology, which is highly polemical and dismissive of other perspectives. They state quite clearly that "we intend for the translation to reflect the original message of the Quran for those who have scholarly or personal curiosity in it" (page 9), but they identify this original message with their "alternate perspective," which is explicitly a rejection of all previous views."
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In this translation, we did not just replace the "previous views" with our "alternative perspective." For almost all cases where we differed from the traditional translations, we provided sufficient discussions in the footnotes, using linguistics, sound reasoning, and the light of other verses of the Quran. We understand the reaction of scholars of theology who secure a position at a university by merely cutting and pasting previous views without critical thinking; the reformist paradigm appears foreign and scary.
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"The possible market appeal of this book is questionable. There is considerable controversy attached to be translators’ inspiration, Rashad Khalifa, who was apparently assassinated by Muslim extremists. Controversy may assist book sales, as happened in the case of The Satanic Verses, but it would be a cynical and questionable strategy to publish a book simply because it arouses the wrath of many people. Nor would scholars of Islamic studies be drawn to use this book in courses, unless they were dealing with fringe movements in the modern world. I myself would never use it in my course on "the Qur’an as literature," though I might draw it to the attention of a student interested in modern science-based ideological approaches to the text."
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Those Muslim extremists followed the "tradition", which we are accused of not respecting. The books of jurisprudence of both Sunni and Shiite sects and their interpretations of the Quran distort the verses of the Quran and drive a satanic rule: "Anyone who is deemed heretic or apostate by ulama should be killed."
Dropping the name of The Satanic Verses of Salman Rushdi, our Sunni scholar is intending to scare the publishing house, which we believe was the real reason for the cancellation of the publication of this translation. The publishing house received numerous positive feedback and endorsements from prominent scholars.
How a sober mind, especially someone who is considered a scholar, could confuse this translation with a fiction that contains ugly insults and false accusations to Prophet Muhammad and his family? Where in this translation did this Sunni scholar find such disrespect, even a hint of such a language? To the contrary, this translation is one of the strongest defenses of Muhammad’s integrity and model character against the defamation of hearsay tradition. Nevertheless, the Sunni scholar reached his goal, which was to scare a prestigious American publishing company off from publishing a book that could be catalyst in peace and progress.
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"I have not yet addressed the claim of the translators to represent a reformist and nonsexist view of Islam. I think that such a goal is worthwhile and indeed is being pursued responsibly by a number of scholars and activists. However, there is a big gap that separates the eccentricity and polemical exclusivism of this text from, for example, the serious academic and philosophical engagement with ethical issues characteristic of the group represented in the volume Progressive Muslims: on Gender, Justice, and Pluralism, edited by Omid Safi. The translators make their case for a nonsexist reading of the Qur’an by highly selective and arbitrary readings of terms, such as the absurd rendering of the Arabic word bakr (normally "virgin") as "progressive," a meaning that is practically inconceivable in seventh-century Arabia. They apply their own understanding of the principles of the Qur’an to revise the text with remarkable disregard of historical and linguistic precedent. It would be a mistake to equate this kind of revisionism with a genuine spirit of reform, since it would create a false impression for those who might be interested in real Islamic reform."
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Good. Finally, to support his accusations, our scholar is providing a specific example, though it is a single word. He picks that particular word after 13 full pages. Assuming that he read at least 13 pages from this translation before writing this diatribe, could we say that he did not have a problem with our arguments for rejecting the traditional translation of verse 4:34, where we rejected the traditional distortion justifying husband beating their wives, or our rejecting the traditional take on 5:38, where punishment for thieves is limited with cutting off their hands, or our rejection of traditional translation of 9:29, where distortion of a word create an extra tax on non-Muslims, or our rejection of traditional translation of 4:127, where the fatherless children of widows are considered candidates to be married by their adult guardians? Our "prominent scholar" could not find anything wrong with those radical and important diversions from tradition. To support all his unsubstantiated attacks on behalf of a regressive and diabolic innovation that replaced a Quranic tradition, he finally finds a single word in our translation: progressive.
Interestingly, he does not acknowledge the extraordinary importance of our powerful arguments debunking the traditional interpretation on 4:34; 5:38; 9:29; and 4:127 (among hundreds of others). Restoring the meaning of these four verses alone to their indented original meaning, yes this alone, would have immense contribution to the intellectual, social, and political lives of more than a billion Muslims. But, our scholar does not care about truth, well being of Muslims or their progress. All he cares is to follow a status quo that landed him on a secure job.
As for the word progress: After sending the draft of the translation to Palgrave/Macmillan, together with few others, we revised the translation of verse 66:5 and we replaced the word "progressive" with "foremost ones," which we had already listed as one of the other alternatives in the discussion section of the draft. We have a strong argument why the word "abkar" should not be translated as "virgins." The Sunni scholar does not respond to any of our arguments. His problem with the word "progressive" is pervasive and emanates from his regressive position.
According to Palgrave/Macmillan's scholar the meaning of progressive, is "practically inconceivable in seventh-century Arabia." He would be perhaps right if it was written in capital letters as Progressive. But, claming that a population that demonstrated the capacity of igniting a splendid civilization in a dizzying speed, yes claming that such a population had no concept of progress is a sign of intoxication with the cocktail of arrogance and ignorance. Had he checked verse 74:37, he would be shocked to see the word "progressive" or its synonyms.
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"The endorsements that have already been cited for this work include some from people (Irshad Manji and Daniel Pipes) who are known primarily for their antagonism and enmity towards Islam, a project which has significant backing in certain political quarters. Their notion of "reform" is a complete capitulation of Muslims to the dictates of the globalizing capitalist economy, and as an endorsement it will speak worlds about the questionable credentials of this work. The other endorsements are cautious to say the least. Thus one can only call this a timely writing from an opportunistic point of view."
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This knee-jerk reaction to a couple of names who supported our work demonstrates the level of awareness of the scholar about our position: zero. His antagonism and fanaticism against our theological position perhaps deprived him to learn our political position. Had he read any of our articles on contemporary political issues, available in books and several websites, he would learn immediately that our political position is in line with the position of Noam Chomsky and all other activists promoting global peace and justice. Had he also checked the names of others who endorsed our work, he would be confused, since most of them have nothing to do with his scenario. For instance, Kassim Ahmad of Malaysia is inverse of Daniel Pipes of USA. Kassim is a strong voice against American imperialism and Zionism. Similarly, Reza Aslan and all the rest of those who endorsed the book may not necessarily share the same political or theological positions. The idea of Islamic Reform may appeal to many different people for many different reasons. The stereotypical lenses of the "prominent" scholar is unable to see the nature of the endorsements we received, and thus, he takes out his two boxes and puts the two names in our list, together with my name, in the one labeled "bad", and put the rest in the "cautious" one.
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"More could be said about the translation itself, which is flat and uninspired in its style, quirky in the interpretation, treats verses atomistically without connecting them, and in its citation of the Arabic is marred by an idiosyncratic transliteration system based on modern Turkish. But I think it should be evident that I do not recommend this for publication, and I think it would be a mistake for Palgrave to take this on."
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This might be considered a fair criticism. Though his blinding bias takes away his credibility regarding the style and literary value of this translation, we never claimed superiority of the Reformist Translation in literary style. This has never been the primary goal of this work. In fact, there are numerous spelling errors, and it might create too many distractions for the Spelling Bee contestants. Since the book was delayed beyond our patience, we decided to go with the publication despite some spelling errors. I do not recommend this book to those who are going to treat it like a dictionary or another Shakespeare; they can find better books.
The Reformist Translation of the Quran is now available at:
www.brainbowpress.com
and
www.amazon.com
August, 2007
Edip Yuksel
19@19.org
Edip Yuksel; J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
19@19.org
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46198 is a reply to message #46193 ] |
Tue, 18 September 2007 12:18  |
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Selam!
Hi Edip how are you?
Remember me well Im back and I see that not much has changed except that you have co-translated another version of the Quran. This spings a few questions to mind imidiately and that is..... "Do you think that Rashad Khalifa's translation was not quiet how you understood the Quran and that you felt compelled to clarify a few things?"
Is there anything that needed to be corrected or ellaborated on that Rashad missed? Do you think that your translation is more what GOD meant and wants us to learn, than that of Rashad's translation?
Do you believe that Rashad Khalifa was the Messenger Of The Covennat or not?
I hope you do, because if you dont I have to remind you about Sura 3 Ayat 82.
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46208 is a reply to message #46198 ] |
Wed, 19 September 2007 22:58 |
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Dear Devotee:
When I was working together with Rashad Khalifa, Rashad himself revised his translation TWICE. He never claimed to be infallible or to know everything, as some ignorants who have replaced their former idols with him claim. Like all of us, he was in the process of purifying his mind from his cultural and sectarian ideas. He was a constant learner of the Quran.
Since his departure 17 years past, and by God's leave we have learned more about God's signs both in the scripture and in nature. God is the Teacher of the Quran. Thus, I believe that this is an improvement, a continuation of what Rashad had started. I expect some people get stuck with Rashad and become like their counterpart Muhammadans, who consider Muhammad's understanding of the Quran absolute and perfect.
Furthermore, our translation contains extensive arguments for why we translated a particular word or verse differently than the sectarian ones. It also contains some philosophical arguments or counter arguments against skeptic's criticism. It contains extensive comparison with Bible. Moreover, it contains an almost comprehensive yet concise comparison of Islam according to the Quran and Sunni/Shiite religions, in it is appendices section, titled Manifesto for Islamic Reform.
Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel; J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
19@19.org
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46214 is a reply to message #46211 ] |
Thu, 20 September 2007 22:29 |
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Dear Rodeen:
Thank you for the information. I did not seek another big publishing house, since the process of contacting them, getting accepted, getting the book listed for publication for another two or three years in the future, yes, I did not wish to delay it furher.
However, I might now contact Harper Collins, while continuing its publication and word-of-mouth distribution.
Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel; J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
19@19.org
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46222 is a reply to message #46218 ] |
Sat, 22 September 2007 10:25 |
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Brainbows could have done that. But, that would require exta cost in shipping and extra percentage to Amazon.com.
Can you tell me: what is the harm if Amazon is not shipping it?
Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel; J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
19@19.org
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46305 is a reply to message #46193 ] |
Thu, 11 October 2007 11:22 |
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 Ijaz
Messages: 248
Registered: December 2005
Location: uk |
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| Edip Yuksel wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 00:46 |
When 18 years ago I immigrated to the US, as a best-selling author, escaping from both the oppression and threats of Turkish government and the violent reaction of "betrayed" Muslim radicals, I did not know much about the schizophrenic nature or the other face of the US Janus.
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Edip learn to be APPRECIATE, if it was not for US, you would have still been in a prison..
Quran is full of examples where what happened to the UNAPPRECIATE, don't be like them;
[2:243] Have you noted those who fled their homes - though they were in the thousands - fearing death? GOD said to them, "Die," then revived them. GOD showers His grace upon the people, but most people are unappreciative.
[3:144] Muhammad was no more than a messenger like the messengers before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels, does not hurt GOD in the least. GOD rewards those who are appreciative.
[3:145] No one dies except by GOD's leave, at a predetermined time. Whoever seeks the vanities of this world, we give him therefrom, and whoever seeks the rewards of the Hereafter, we bless him therein. We reward those who are appreciative.
| Edip Yuksel wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 00:46 |
The reaction of the American media and gatekeepers to our landmark work, "Quran: a Reformist Translation," supported our suspicion that the USA-Inc is not sincere in its claim of seeking peace, democracy, freedom in the Muslim world. Its policy so far has done just the opposite: supporting corrupt and oppressive kings/generals, and strengthening the extremists!
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Do you expect US to change their opnion about Islam just like that when what happened in 9/11, and Terrorism created by Muslims all over the world..
Give time things will work out..
[3:122] Two groups among you almost failed, but GOD was their Lord. In GOD the believers shall trust.
[3:160] If GOD supports you, none can defeat you. And if He abandons you, who else can support you? In GOD the believers shall trust.
Regards
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46317 is a reply to message #46305 ] |
Sun, 14 October 2007 10:55 |
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Ijaz,
A person with conscience cannot condone censorship, the killing of about one million people by the world's number one weapon manufacturer and arms dealer, after the series of lies manufactured by the Western Axis of evil, that is, Oil/Arm/Evangelical/Zionist forces.
I immigrated here to speak the truth. Now you are shamelessly asking me to hush, since I have immigrated. I did not immigrate here to turn to a bystander, a jingoist, a lowly creature that claps his hands for the powerful bullies! Earth belongs to God and as a muslim I will utter the same words of justice and peace, regardless where I will be.
To me there is no difference between gang terrorism and state terrorism; in fact, the latter is much worse, since it has more power to change the world and the scope of its atrocities can be much bigger.
For those who are interested to learn my position on current political issues, such as American media, Palestine, and War in Iraq:
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,404,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,188,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,558,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,53,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,174,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,305,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,433,0,0,1,0
http://www.yuksel.org/e/law/benladen.htm
http://www.yuksel.org/e/law/terror.htm
Peace,
Edip
[Updated on: Sun, 14 October 2007 15:54]
Edip Yuksel; J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
19@19.org
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46319 is a reply to message #46317 ] |
Mon, 15 October 2007 05:18 |
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Ijaz
Messages: 248
Registered: December 2005
Location: uk |
Writer |
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| Edip Yuksel wrote on Sun, 14 October 2007 10:55 |
Ijaz,
A person with conscience cannot condone censorship, the killing of about one million people by the world's number one weapon manufacturer and arms dealer, after the series of lies manufactured by the Western Axis of evil, that is, Oil/Arm/Evangelical/Zionist forces.
I immigrated here to speak the truth. Now you are shamelessly asking me to hush, since I have immigrated. I did not immigrate here to turn to a bystander, a jingoist, a lowly creature that claps his hands for the powerful bullies! Earth belongs to God and as a muslim I will utter the same words of justice and peace, regardless where I will be.
To me there is no difference between gang terrorism and state terrorism; in fact, the latter is much worse, since it has more power to change the world and the scope of its atrocities can be much bigger.
For those who are interested to learn my position on current political issues, such as American media, Palestine, and War in Iraq:
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,404,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,188,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,558,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,53,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,174,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,305,0,0,1,0
http://19.org/index.php?id=14,433,0,0,1,0
http://www.yuksel.org/e/law/benladen.htm
http://www.yuksel.org/e/law/terror.htm
Peace,
Edip
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So you do not want to be appreciative of what US has given, education, status, family, job, income, then you are a HYPOCRITE, because if you are against US regime then why don't you go back where you have come from..
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46321 is a reply to message #46319 ] |
Mon, 15 October 2007 20:53 |
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| Quote: |
So you do not want to be appreciative of what US has given, education, status, family, job, income, then you are a HYPOCRITE, because if you are against US regime then why don't you go back where you have come from..
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Your level of understanding is either BLACK or WHITE. You cannot understand subtle issues, you cannot comprehend one's approving certain domestic policies and at the same time opposing certain foreign policies. Your mindset is no different than the right-wing Evangelical Christians or Talibans.
Your childish games with numbers had in the past demonstrated your level of thinking. I should have known that your political position would not be much different. You cannot even comprehend that there are at least half of the US population, mostly born in America, (whom you deem yourself so inferior), too oppose the foreign policy and the atrocities committed by American government.
Living in a country does not mean to kiss the boot and ass of the government. It does not mean to support the liars, warmongers, torturers, war-profiteers, and mass-murderers. But, you have not changed the slave-citizen mentality of the backward country of your origin.
I am blessed to be in America so that I can criticize the bad deeds of my government. As for you, you are not a real American, since you are merely a boot-licker, Uncle-Sam's petty poodle. You are an embarrassment!
| Quote: |
So you do not want to be appreciative of what US has given, education, status, family, job, income, then you are a HYPOCRITE, because if you are against US regime then why don't you go back where you have come from..
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First, I did not immigrate to the United States for those tings. I immigrated to the US for freedom of expression! Get it? So, I will remain in the US as long as I can express my opinion, despite bigots like you.
As for the blessings you count, the source of blessings is God. In my youth, I gave up wealth, fame, my family, education, a very bright opportunity, and risked my life for the sake of my freedom to share my political, religious and philosophical conviction.
I will never trade upright standing for truth and justice with the worldly materials. Arrogant and ignorant people will never understand the position of Socrates, Moses, Muhammad, Jesus, their supporters and people like them. They were all blamed by their contemporary might-worshiping people who had inferiority complex.
Furthermore, you are confusing the people of the US with its government, especially its current government, which is only popular among the warmongering Evangelical Christians, weapon manufacturers, traders and other war-profiteers. Ironically, you are siding with those who are filled with hatred against you. People like you are their own worst enemies.
Peace,
Edip
[Updated on: Wed, 17 October 2007 21:22]
Edip Yuksel; J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
19@19.org
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46322 is a reply to message #46321 ] |
Tue, 16 October 2007 04:03 |
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Ijaz
Messages: 248
Registered: December 2005
Location: uk |
Writer |
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Edip,
I have insight of why America may have acted the way it did in the past, there intention remain to be honest and sincere, not like the majority of so called Muslims who are killing innocent people in the name of God.
Let me remind you that you took oath on God when you got US nationality you HYPOCRITE in more ways then I can describe, you have also broken promise with God.
If you have to protest, then why can't you do it in nice manner, since you made promise to country and God to support America, does that not mean anything to you.
I am a UK citizen, and I aggree with their foreign policies, UK and America is both fighting Terrorism. I fully support in its role in Iraq, Saddam Hussain was a evil man and he got what he deserved..
Palastinaians are as bad as Israelise, they do not understand peace, and they deserve what they get..
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46323 is a reply to message #46322 ] |
Tue, 16 October 2007 07:31 |
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Dear Ijaz,
You have simply ijazed “briefed” your point, through displaying your empty mind and sealed heart in believing and following up with the “lies” of those two hypocritical and self eluded countries that have submitted themselves and their nations to the great devil.
You yourself have shown hypocrisy “displayed your arrogance which stemmed out of your ignorance to the facts beyond the main reason why the mentioned countries are currently and previously were doing in world politics and attacks other nations.
What the British and the Americans are doing are attacking others, they are not fighting back. But those who attacked USA and GB recently are in real were fighting back. Though unfortunately, they are doing it within the same atrocity these two countries are using worldwide. So do not seal your eyes and ears when you see the “back fights” on USA and UK and open your eyes once you see UK and USA attacks on other nations.
Do you still believe that USA and UK are fighting for the real good cause? What is their real good cause? Is it for a peaceful middle east? Then what about the killing of unarmed young Palestinians ladies and children? What about the massacres done on Palestinians and Iraqis? What about Japan atomic attacks? What about the massacres done by the UK throughout the history in the other countries what so called Commonwealth countries?
Open your eyes and uncover your ears though it is difficult in your situation with your blind heart. And never be impressed by their speeches , 2:204 Among the people, one may impress you with his utterances concerning this life, and may even call upon GOD to witness his innermost thoughts, while he is a most ardent opponent.
Do not be impressed by their looks,63:4 When you see them, you may be impressed by their looks. And when they speak, you may listen to their eloquence. They are like standing logs. They think that every call is intended against them. These are the real enemies; beware of them. GOD condemns them; they have deviated.
Do not be impressed by their abundances 5:100 Proclaim: "The bad and the good are not the same, even if the abundance of the bad may impress you. You shall reverence GOD, (even if you are in the minority) O you who possess intelligence, that you may succeed."
I am not for those who are fighting back those attackers nor with the attackers but with the truth in that we all turned losers once we were looking for excuses for others and could not or else has no power to force Justice or dare to say the truth.
May God bless us all with his mercy.
(17:84) Say, Everyone works in accordance with his belief and your Lord knows best which ones are guided in the right path.
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46327 is a reply to message #46325 ] |
Tue, 16 October 2007 12:22 |
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Ijaz
Messages: 248
Registered: December 2005
Location: uk |
Writer |
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| tarikh wrote on Tue, 16 October 2007 09:56 |
Peace, I believe we should see Edip/Ijaz's debate in the light of quran.
1. Any nation whose leaders commit oppression are doomed, their retribution is soon. As for nations like Palestine, their leaders committed oppression in the past.
2. It is true that whenever we see that a nation's leaders commit retribution, we should warn them and leave, judging by the stories of Lot, Saleh, Noa, etc
3. Any evil/oppression that befalls Palestinians or Iraqi is due to what their own hands have sent forth. It's God's punishment. I believe the article 'why do muslims lose?' explains this well. The big question is: should we support a nation on whom God's wrath has prevailed?
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Salaam Brother tarikh,
Thanks for putting matters in prospective, Quran is quite clear that the transgressors should not be supported by the believers please read the folowing verses;
The Law
[4:123] It is not in accordance with your wishes, or the wishes of the people of the scripture: anyone who commits evil pays for it, and will have no helper or supporter against GOD.
Lessons from History*
[8:12] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger."
[8:72] Surely, those who believed, and emigrated, and strove with their money and their lives in the cause of GOD, as well as those who hosted them and gave them refuge, and supported them, they are allies of one another. As for those who believe, but do not emigrate with you, you do not owe them any support, until they do emigrate. However, if they need your help, as brethren in faith, you shall help them, except against people with whom you have signed a peace treaty. GOD is Seer of everything you do.
[8:74] Those who believed and emigrated, and strove in the cause of GOD, as well as those who hosted them and gave them refuge, and supported them, these are the true believers. They have deserved forgiveness and a generous recompense.
[10:81] When they threw, Moses said, "What you have produced is magic, and GOD will make it fail. GOD does not support the transgressors' work."
Regards
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46328 is a reply to message #46319 ] |
Tue, 16 October 2007 14:46 |
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Volkan Gungor
Messages: 210
Registered: August 2002
Location: Hollanda (Rotterdam) |
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| Quote: |
So you do not want to be appreciative of what US has given, education, status, family, job, income, then you are a HYPOCRITE, because if you are against US regime then why don't you go back where you have come from..
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Your above statement reminded me the following statement of the Pharaoh:
He said, "Did we not raise you from infancy, and you spent many years with us?
So according to your statement Moses should be also an unappreciative person. Because he criticized his political leader.
Let's go to the micro side:
Our parents also educated us. They bought foods, clothes for us in our youth . We have to be thankful for this. But if they are not on the right path we have to say the truth. So according to your statement we will be also unappreciative if we criticize them.
If somebody gives us status, income, charity we still have to oppose if he is transgressing.
Peace
Volkan
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46330 is a reply to message #46328 ] |
Wed, 17 October 2007 03:09 |
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Ijaz
Messages: 248
Registered: December 2005
Location: uk |
Writer |
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| Volkan Gungor wrote on Tue, 16 October 2007 14:46 |
| Quote: |
So you do not want to be appreciative of what US has given, education, status, family, job, income, then you are a HYPOCRITE, because if you are against US regime then why don't you go back where you have come from..
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Your above statement reminded me the following statement of the Pharaoh:
He said, "Did we not raise you from infancy, and you spent many years with us?
So according to your statement Moses should be also an unappreciative person. Because he criticized his political leader.
Let's go to the micro side:
Our parents also educated us. They bought foods, clothes for us in our youth . We have to be thankful for this. But if they are not on the right path we have to say the truth. So according to your statement we will be also unappreciative if we criticize them.
If somebody gives us status, income, charity we still have to oppose if he is transgressing.
Peace
Volkan
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Volkan,
I do not class US in the same league as Pharouh, and that is the fundamentals of this argument.
I class US as uprighteous, honest and sincere country. When you blame US for murders, in every war innocent people get killed, one cannot blame US for that however, the terrorists target specificaly these people look at 9/11 and 7/7 see the difference between terrorists and US.
If you and Edip want to support these people then you are more then welcome, but count me out.
The other aspect of this argument was which you ignored was that Edip took OATH in front of GOD when he got citizen ship of US that he will support US, and what he does now he is oppossing US THIS IS A SURE SIGN OF A HYPOCRITE, YOU ARE FOLLOWING AN HYPOCRITE..he broke promise to GOD and believers do not do this..
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46334 is a reply to message #46333 ] |
Thu, 18 October 2007 04:11 |
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Ijaz
Messages: 248
Registered: December 2005
Location: uk |
Writer |
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| Volkan Gungor wrote on Wed, 17 October 2007 14:14 |
| Quote: |
Volkan,
I do not class US in the same league as Pharouh, and that is the fundamentals of this argument.
I class US as uprighteous, honest and sincere country. When you blame US for murders, in every war innocent people get killed, one cannot blame US for that however, the terrorists target specificaly these people look at 9/11 and 7/7 see the difference between terrorists and US
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Perhaps 700000 people should be killed extra in Iraq to consider America as a terrorist country.
Or perhaps we have to find 'mathematical proofs' which show that America is a transgressor country.
Peace
Volkan
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OR Perhaps Iraq will kill its own people like it is doing now, with the help of SUICIDE BOMBERS!!
The people of Iraq are utmost unappreciate of US & UK, who saved them from DICTATORSHIP of SADAAM HUSSAIN, what they do in return is kill US & UK soldiers using SUICIDE BOMBERS..
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| Re: The USA Establishment Censors the Message of Islamic Reform; but [message #46337 is a reply to message #46334 ] |
Thu, 18 October 2007 08:48 |
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Get out of the box of the coalition of Evangelical-Zionist-WeaponIndustry-OilIndustry and see the other side of the coin.
It is sad that you cannot even see the facts that most Americans have seen. This war was all about oil, weapon industry, and profiting from war and the interest of the Zionist regime. Check the article below titled "The Bush Administration Always Told Truth" and go read some articles at www.commondreams.org
The civil war did not exist. It was all concocted by the military and CIA operations in Iraq. Imagine a country called ARROGANT, which is ten times more powerful than the US, invaded the US because terrorists from Argentina attacked her. Now imagine that Arrogant made too many stupid mistakes and lost the battle. In order to blame the chaos and atrocities it caused, now Arrogant conducted several covert operations to create civil war between Mexican, White, and Black population in the US? Are you following?...
But, like all bigots you will prefer to remain in your cabin and cheer for your master! I rarely use such a harsh language, but for a slave like you, this might be the only way to show you the light of freedom.
Peace,
Edip
[Updated on: Thu, 18 October 2007 08:49]
Edip Yuksel; J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
www.islamicreform.org
19@19.org
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