Salaam Katanta,
Below are the statistics to guarantee we're captured all possible combinations following your line of reasoning.
Fact 1
1. Chapters: 114
2. # of verses per chapter: 114 groups
3. Verse no.: 6346
4. # of words: 6346 groups
Let's ignore Chapters and # of verses since 114 << 6346.
The combinations for Fact 1 are greater than (2 x 6346) factorial ~ 2.4 x10power46572.
With 5 and 7 variables (neglecting Chapters and # of verses), Fact2 and Fact3 would have astronomical combinations!
Fact2
1. Chapter: 114
2. # of verses per chapter: 114 groups
3. Verse no.: 6346
4. # of words: 6346 groups
5. # of letters: 6346 groups
6. Word no.: 6346 x no. of different word positions (sometimes up to 128 different positions)
7. # of letters: 6346 x no. of different word positions (sometimes up to 128 different positions)
Ignore chapter and verse no. and only assume 6346 for word no. and # of letters.
The combinations for Fact 2 are greater than (5 x 6346)! ~ 1.3 x 10power129054.
Fact3
1. Chapter: 114
2. # of verses per chapter: 114 groups
3. Verse no.: 6346
4. # of words: 6346 groups
5. # of letters: 6346 groups
6. Word no.: 6346 x no. of different word positions (sometimes up to 128 different positions)
7. # of letters: 6346 x no. of different word positions (sometimes up to 128 different positions)
8. GV of sentence: 6346 x no. of different word positions (sometimes up to 128 different positions) x no. of letters per word
9. GV of word: 6346 x no. of different word positions (sometimes up to 128 different positions) x no. of letters per word
Ignore chapter and verse no. and only assume 6346 for each of 6. 7. 8. 9.
The combinations for Fact 3 are greater than (7 x 6346)! ~ 1.2 x 10power188166.
A) If you don't believe in the miracle of 19 - you'd have the above super galactic combinations, since you can't assume there are any patterns. Why should you assume the order of the chapter to be correct? What proof do you have for the no. of verses per chapter, the no of words, no of letters? Vivek is saying part of Quran was lost, and what we have today is not complete. Based on these premises, you'd have to include all combinations! If you use the predefined patterns you're assuming the patterns are correct and repeatable for all the verses. So you can't assume patterns until you actually have performed the combinatorial analysis.
B.) If you believe in the miracle of 19 - as I'm assuming you do - since you're referencing RK appendix 1 - you need to ask yourself why would God limit "mathematical miracle of 19" only to the partial list you've decided to include? Why not extend to the whole Quran, words, letters, and the universe, since God's system is the same throughout?
You see Katanta; the divisibility by 19 through the patterns approach is like a "signal analyzer" or decoder. There are some pre-program functions and patterns in the decoder, and after analysis you would know if this is just random noise or a well behaved signal following certain criteria. Earlier decoders (patterns) during RK's time were used on the sequences of chapters and verses, since there were no arguments on those numbers, other than chapter 9, and the criterion was divisibility by 19. Today we're using the same principles and simple logic as during RK's time and applying them to words and letters. Tell me what method would you use to determine the correct spelling or count of words, since God's Word is perfect?
There may be additional patterns (beyond the 3 facts mentioned here) that can produce divisibility by 19, only God knows, and God's willing they may be discovered, however they would not contradict the spelling and no. of words in e-Quran.
The mathematical miracle of 19 protects the Quran down to the letter level!
| Katanta wrote on Mon, 10 August 2009 04:14 |
Salam amar,
I admire your effort in putting together this e-Quran. I personally believe code19 is significant in Quran. However I do not believe that these three facts you have presented are significant, here is why:
FACT 1
1) CHAPTER NUMBER
2) NO. OF VERSES IN CHAPTER
3) VERSE NUMBERS
4) NO. OF WORDS IN VERSE
Now you chose these four variables to make up this large number and chose to arrange them in this order to find that it is a multiple of 19. However you could have arranged these four variables in 24 other ways. Therefore the probability that one of these 24 arrangements is a multiple of 19 is 100%. Infact if you try all these different arrangments there is a chance you will get two multipes of 19 out of the 24. I dont know for sure as I dont know the result of the other 24 arrangements possible with these 4 variables. Now if you try all these 24 arrangements and find 3 or more multiples of 19 then this would be a significant fact.
FACT 2
1) CHAPTER NUMBER
2) NO. OF VERSES IN CHAPTER
3) VERSE NUMBERS
4) NO. OF WORDS IN VERSE
5) NO. OF LETTERS IN VERSE
6) WORD NUMBER
7) NO. OF LETTERS IN WORD
Here there are 7 variables that make up this large number. These 7 variables can be rearranged in 5,040 other ways. I understand that some arrangments make more logical sense that others but the point which I would like to raise is that if ther are more than 19 differnt arrangments possible for a pattern then it is not significant. Therefore one of the arragnements being a multiple of 19 is not significant. Again I could be wrong as I dont know the result of the other possible arrangments.
FACT 3
1) CHAPTER NUMBER
2) NO. OF VERSES IN CHAPTER
3) VERSE NUMBERS
4) NO. OF WORDS IN VERSE
5) NO. OF LETTERS IN VERSE
6) WORD NUMBER
7) NO. OF LETTERS IN WORD
8 GV OF SENTENCE OF WORD
9) GV OF WORD
The same principle applies here as well. These 9 variables can be rearranged in 362,880 other ways. But the number of differnt arrangments would be lower than that when experimenting as some arrangments make more sense than others.
I know you all have righteous intentions but if we surround the more simple code19 facts (e.g made in Dr. Khalifa's appendix 1) with less singificant ones then we can dilute the miracle (make it less obvious).
However these assumptions I have made could be wrong. One could try different arrangements and if one on average gets a multiple of 19 after every 18 arrangments then it is not significant in my opinion.
Peace
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